Racism in our housing system

Today, I'm here with Uche and Victoria to discuss a new campaign by Shelter which they have helped co-produce.
I wanted to start by asking you both why you felt it was important for you to be a part of this campaign and what it meant to you.

[Victoria] The opportunity to do this campaign came and then I thought, okay, this would be good. So, you know, I got an opportunity to be like the voice of the voiceless.

[Uche] It’s really important to highlight that the system is broken and needs to be changed.

[Victoria] So I wanted to talk to you both about the concept of slippery discrimination.
So the racism was not in my face. It was hidden, like, swept under the carpet. But I just knew that this was what it is. But I just couldn't pinpoint that.

[Uche] I mean, for me, the slippery discrimination was more a case of gatekeeping. You walk into the council hub, you need your support. They tell you everything you need to bring in. If you need your supporting letters from your GP. You bring in everything, because you're not going to just go there because you don't know how long you're going to spend there.
So you go there with everything that you need and then yes, they turn around and say, well, unfortunately we won't be able to help you today because of this or because of that.

And then you're like, okay, so what do I need to do?
They know what you need to do for you to fix that whatever it is that's missing that they need, but they won't signpost you to where you’re supposed to go to get it. So they know what you need, and they're just basically hiding that information from you and making it harder for you.

You're about to be homeless, you're homeless.
You know, there's a situation at hand and the people that have the power to help you are not helping you.

So you start to question yourself.
What’s wrong with me?
Why won’t you help me?

Whereas when you look around and you see, you know, certain people of different colours and they’re getting all the help that they need. And you can hear them speaking to them differently as well. The tone changes, the attitude changes.

You can feel the discrimination.
You can feel the racism.
You can see it from the way that they look at you, the tone of their voice. That was my experience, for me. It's just the undertones of it, the undercurrents, like the gatekeeping of it.

[Kwajo] I think with my own, and I've spoken about this before in terms of slippery discrimination and what my Dad faced, and witnessing that as a child and our family situation with homelessness. It was very obvious, especially in regards to local authorities and their interaction with him, even as a child, that there was elements of racism and discrimination.
And importantly, there I also thought there was a huge level of classism being shown towards him because of his background. And we saw it with interactions.

I mean, my Dad, when he was phoning up having to try and change or shift his thick African, or Ghanaian, accent.

Exactly, code switching. And you were stuck on a waiting list for 15 years, right?

[Uche] So for me, it was a negative impact already because the first thing they do is tell you, you might have a long wait on the list.
It's not just going to be... so already they're taking the hope, you know, because all I want is a home for myself and my kids. So already you've put a barrier in front of there. You're depressing me already.

There were things that they could have told me to do or places they could have signposted me to. That will give me further advantage, but they just kept quiet. Hence the gatekeeping that I was talking about.

[Victoria] Well, for me, I waited for 14 months.
I couldn't think about my future.
All of that was in my head was: I need a place to stay.
I cannot just be on the streets.
So it had, you know, an adverse effect on my mental health.

[Kwajo] So there's a long history here when it comes to racism and discrimination in relation to housing. And part of the report, a key part of the report, is intergenerational racism and trauma. How has it affected communities like yours?

[Uche] On my part, what I'd say is a lot of families have been affected by this.
It's not just — I've got some friends that are from the West Indies, from the Caribbean.
They talk a lot about their parents, their grandparents and the housing situation at the time.
You know, when they first came to live in the UK, came to Britain.

And, you know, they talk about the trauma that they experienced as a family and how that's trickled down to them and their kids presently because you talk about things like, you were called over here to help out. And then once you get here, you start being mistreated, you start being looked down upon. You start being treated unfairly because of the color of your skin.

I think from that respect, just that respect at least — from the human side of it — I think it's important to remind ourselves that what happens in the past also affects the present and the future.
So now I'm thinking, well, what about my kids?
You know, this happened to my grandparents.
It's happening to me.
I think changes should be made now so that we don't suffer or our children don't suffer what we have suffered.

[Victoria] I think this could actually go back to slippery discrimination.
I've spoken to quite a lot of black people or mixed heritage people.
And one of the first things they tell me is when we first came here, older people actually, the racism was quite in your face.
Someone could tell you, “I don't like you because you're black,” and just leave it at that.
But because now it's like, you know, they can't tell you to your face.
So they've got to be very subtle about it.

[Kwajo] And I mean, Victoria, what I wanted to ask you is what would you say to people both inside the social housing world, or the housing sector, but also outside the sector, who may think or say:
“Well, this isn't an issue that's affected me. So therefore it doesn't matter. I don't need to deal with it.”

[Victoria]
Okay. I've heard a lot of people say “I don't see colour,” but I'm going to need you to start seeing colour. Because when you see colour, then you can understand the pain the next person is going through.

You can understand how privileged you are, and you can understand why something needs to be done about this situation.

[Kwajo] And I mean, part of the changes that we’re seeing in government is to do with qualifications and training for those working within the sector.

And one of the recommendations, off of the back of this report, is training specifically around this anti-racism, anti-discrimination.

And off of the back of the conversation we've had, do you feel like this is a must?
It needs to happen if we're really going to create the change that we want to see for future generations?

[Uche] I would have to agree there, because, I mean, at the end of the day, the Competence and Conduct Standard — why can't racism and discrimination be part of that?
Because that is obviously part of the wider problem that we are facing here.
Because if that is not included in that, then you're not really pushing much, if you know, so to speak.

Especially considering what's going on, the current climate of things that are happening currently within the UK and around the world. I mean, discrimination and racism plays a major part of that.

You know, people need to be trained.
You have to use the qualifications on your certificate and come and help people.
And you should be held accountable to that.

[Victoria] They need to be empathic towards other people's experiences.
The slippery discrimination, the intergenerational... it’s all linked in together.

[Kwajo] I wanted to ask: what is one thing you'd like someone watching this to take away as a message from the campaign?

[Victoria] First of all, acknowledging there are people that are going through harder obstacles towards accessing a social home.

[Kwajo] And what we need to see off the back of this is action. We need to see policy changes, but not just lip service. We also need to see action because that's what really matters off of the back of this.

[Victoria and Uche] Absolutely.

[Kwajo] Thank you both.

[Uche] Thank you Kwajo, thank you.